Seeking Advice for Chinese Steamed Buns

Tough on the outside, chewy on the inside is how I'd describe the Steamed Chinese Barbecue Pork Buns I've made thus far. Also known as Char Siu Bao, these fluffy, white buns are commonly served at Chinese restaurants during dim sum. At their best, Char Siu Bao are soft as a pillow and filled with a savory mixture of minced Chinese barbecue pork (char siu), soy sauce, oyster sauce, scallions and sugar.

My recent attempts at this wonderful snack have left me disappointed. As you can see from the picture above, my Char Siu Bao are slightly yellow with a dry, tough exterior and a dense, chewy texture. Only the filling has been acceptable, which is why my trash can is now filled with buns that have been hollowed out.

I'm not exactly sure what I've been doing wrong, so I'm hoping someone out there would be able to lead me in the right direction. So far, I've made two different Char Siu Bao recipes. One from Corinne Trang's Essentials of Asian Cuisine, available here; and the other from Martin Yan's Chinatowns, available here. They're both similar in ingredients and technique. Basically: combine yeast with warm water, rest until bubbly, stir into flour mixture, hand knead five to ten minutes or until smooth and elastic, proof for two hours, knead five minutes, wrap with barbeque pork mixture, and steam in a bamboo steamer over high heat for 12 to 15 minutes.

I've come up with a few possible theories to explain my poor results, but please feel free to debunk my hypotheses or add your own:

1. Excessive kneading is overdeveloping the gluten and making the dough too firm and chewy.

2. Insufficient proofing is causing poor volume and dense texture.

3. Insufficient baking powder is causing poor volume and dense texture.

4. The higher protein levels in Canadian flour (cake: 10%, all-purpose: 12%) are overdeveloping the gluten. I'll assume the recipes were tested using American flours which have lower protein levels.

5. Using an improper steaming temperature is causing poor volume, or collapsing the buns.

6. The dough is too dry and contains insufficient fat. I noticed that after leaving the raw dough uncovered for a few minutes, it developed a thin crust.

7. Oversteaming is causing the buns to shrivel up and turn yellow. Though this may be compounding the problem, I'm almost certain that there’s something wrong with my dough. During one of my trials, I peered into the bamboo steamer after three minutes, and the buns had already developed a firm exterior.

Of course it could be possible that there's something wrong with the recipes. However, I've looked at least a dozen recipes for Char Siu Bao, and they appear to be similar in both ingredients and technique. I've also had good results with recipes from Corinne Trang and Martin Yan in the past, so being an inexperienced baker, it's likely the problem is on my side.

Comments

[judy]

Hi
You should try the recipe again with
1 superfine cake/hong kong flour(best)
2 'Crescent' double-action baking powder
3 shortening/lard?
Rest dough before and after wrapping

[Palle]

There have been many suggestion on you page to why the steamed buns are not white like in the restaurants. The problem is, however, not the flour nor the yeast. In China they add soda (sodium carbonate), which is an alkaline. This is the reson for the steamed buns in the restaurants being very white. You should be able to find soda in any normal super maked.

[Sweet-3Bear]

There seems to be so many ways to make these steamed baos. I'm getting so confused with everyones advice ^__^v. Has anyone tried the recipe on this site? ---> http://www.c4vct.com/kym/bento/steambun.htm

I just started the recipe about 10 mins ago, so I'll come back and let you all know how it went, a bit later.

Great site BTW, and good luck to everyone with their baos!

[bp]

http://www.theworldwidegourmet.com/countries/hongkong/dim-pork2.htm

check this web site

[Pat Smith]

Me too, I try to make white steam bun and have not have 100% satisfy. I tried the recipe with yeast and no yeast, the result came out the same. I subtitude 1/2 of all purpose flour with cake flour (softasilk) by Pillsbury. When steaming, I added vinegar to my pot. The bun looks more white than just all-purpose flour.
I have a few freinds who own a dim sum restaurant but they never share the recipe. I begin to think that most dim sum foods are import from HongKong.
Good luck all

[yuk lam]

Hi, I have been searching desperately for a recipe for chinese 'bor lor bao' and 'gai mei bao' if anyone knows of a recipe then could they email me back on chillibird@hotmail.co.uk

[southernflavor4u]

Coconut Fun Buns
Ingredients:
(A)
· 2 Cups High Protein flour (strong, hard wheat, or bread)
· 1/2 Cup Rose flour (all-purpose or plain)
· 1 1/2 tbsp sugar
· 2 tbsp milk powder
· 1 tsp salt
· 1/4 tsp bread improver
· 2 tsp instant dry yeast
· 1/4 Cup evaporated milk
· 2/3 Cup cold water
· 2 tbsp shortening
Filling:
· 1 Cup grated white coconut
· 1/2 Cup dark brown sugar
· 1/4 Cup UHT milk (ultra heat treatment, ultra pasterized)
· 2 tbsp butter
· 1/4 tsp salt
· 1 pandan leaf — knotted (if available)
Method:
COMBINE ingredients (A) into a mixing bowl for 1 minute on low speed. Add water gradually on low speed and continue to mix well on medium speed for 1 to 2 minutes.
Blend in shortening; knead for 10 minutes on medium speed until dough turns smooth and elastic. Remove dough and place in a lightly oiled basin to rest for 35 minutes. Cover with a damp tea-towel.
Turn dough out on a lightly floured surface. Knead by hand for 1 minute.
Scale down the dough into balls the size of a ping-pong or golf ball.
Roll buns
Roll each ball of dough into a long, flat strip. Fold into half exactly. Snip in between with scissors. Open up and place flat on the table. Add a teaspoon filling. Roll up and give a twist to enclose the filling. Round up the dough into a ball and place on a greased tray. Leave the rolls to prove for 30 minutes. Brush rolls with egg glaze and sprinkle with almond flakes (optional).
Bake in a preheated oven at 375°F for 8 minutes, then lower the temperature to 325°F and bake for 10 minutes or until golden brown.
Filling:
Combine butter, sugar, salt, pandan leaf and milk in a saucepan over low fire. When butter has melted and sugar dissolved, stir in grated coconut.
Mix well and cook until mixture is almost dry. Cool filling, then refrigerate.
Round buns
Roll ball of dough out flat. Add one tablespoon filling. Gather up the sides and pleat up like what you would do for a pau. Turn down the pleated side on a greased tray. Leave to prove for 30 minutes. Brush with egg glaze; sprinkle with almond flakes (optional) and bake at 375°F for 8 minutes and 350°F for 10 minutes or until golden brown.
Oval-shape buns
Roll dough out flat. Add one tablespoon filling. Gather up the sides and pleat to seal. Turn the pleated side down. Pinch both ends to form an oval shape. Leave to rest for 30 minutes. Do the same as you would for the round buns and bake at 375°F for 8 minutes and 350°F for 10 minutes. Remove and cool on wire rack.
Footnote: If dough is too sticky, add a little more flour and knead by hand until dough is smooth and elastic.

[Devyn]

I'm tried a pork bun recipe that was japanese in origin. (Nikuman) The buns turned out really well, and the dough was so good I was looking about for an asian barbeque recipe that I could try with the dough when I happened upon this site. Here's what I can tell you about my buns: I was translating the measurements to American standards, so I was kind of guessing (I'm pretty sure I ended up with less yeast than was called for). I used all-purpose flour. Having no experience with breads, I assumed that the yeast was a dry ingredient, as there were no instructions to the contrary, and did nothing to activate it beforehand. Just dumped the packed of granulated dry yeast into the flour mix, and then went on from there. It seemed to work out well. The dry ingredients were a mess as I was mixing in the liquid. I was sure that it would never come together, so about the time all the flour was dampened (but not sticking together well) I threw in the shortning and kneaded the heck out of it. Then it came together, a little lumpy, but that smoothed out as it rose and again as I shaped the buns. I was steaming my buns in a small steamer, so I had some rolled up and ready for the next empty steamer tray longer than the 15 minutes it recommended letting them rest. The vinegar in the water did smell some, but none of the flavor seemed to linger on the buns, which were not brilliant white, but a nice cream color. Oh, and I managed to forget to squeeze out the liquid from the cabbage, so I had some fairly runny filling. (and I chopped the ginger rather than mincing it. It gives a nice surprise burst of flavor when you get a slightly larger piece of ginger, but then again, I like he flavor of straight ginger) And I used sweet cooking sake.
Here's the recipe I used.

BUN RECIPE:
flour 300g
sugar 40g
a pinch of salt
instant yeast 4g
baking powder 10g
milk 40ml
water 100ml
vegetable shortening 15g (or lard)

FILLING RECIPE
lean minced pork 150g
chinese cabbage about 5 leaves, cut into jullienne, steamed (microwaved), squeeze out all the water
garlic 2 cloves, minced
ginger about half the size of a golf ball, minced
shiitake mushroom 1/2 cup, sliced
dash sesame oil
dash soy sauce
dash oyster sauce
sugar 1TB
japanese cooking sake wine 1 TB
cornstarch 1/2 TB
s + p to taste, but don’t actually taste it (raw!).

Mix all the powdered ingredient in a bowl and make a well in the centre. Pour the wet ingredent into the well and mix in thoroughly. When they’re combined, add the shortening and knead until smooth. Rest at room temperature for 30 mins.
Separate dough into ten balls, and roll into circles. Place your favorite filling in the center of each circle and fold dough up until all sides meet at the top, and pinch to seal. Let rest for at least 15 minutes. Steam for 15 minutes. (To prevent some discoloration, add a splash of vinegar to the water under the steamer.)

[Clement]

Hi everyone, thanks so much for leaving your recipes and suggestions. I hope to try making them again very soon. Hope you're all having terrific success!

[Lee]

from reggie aspiras Kitchen Rescue. try this I had great sucess
Cha Siopao
(Cantonese Style Roast Pork Asado Siopao)

1 1/2 c high gluten, high protein, first class or bread flour

1 1/2 c low gluten, cake flour or third-class flour (use cake flour for whiter dough)

6 g active dry yeast

3/4 tsp baking powder

4 tsp ammonia bicarbonate (to smoothen dough)

1 c warm water

Combine yeast, ammonia and warm water. Mix flours and make a well. Pour yeast mixture in the center of the well and slowly incorporate mixture. Once the mixture is solid enough to handle, knead until smooth.

Grease bowl and put the dough, cover with cling wrap. Let it rise until the dough has doubled in size. Remove dough from bowl, put on a flat surface and sprinkle with all-purpose flour on top.

Mix baking powder with dough and knead until smooth. Roll dough to 2-inch round and 12-inch long baton/log. Set dough aside.

Cha Siu filling:
(roast pork filling, good for 900 g of dough)

400 g Chinese roast pork, diced (available in Chinese restaurants)

Sauce for filling:

3/4 c low gluten flour

1/3 c scallion, chopped

1/3 c ginger root, pounded

3 tbsp salad oil

A.
1 c water

3 tbsp sugar

2/3 tsp chicken powder

1/2 tsp red vinegar

B.
1 tbsp oyster sauce

1 tbsp Chinese soy sauce

1 tsp sesame oil

2/3 tbsp salad oil

white bond paper cut to size

Sift the flour, set aside. Pour in salad oil in pan and add scallions and ginger, saute. Drain oil. In a bowl, combine flour, scallions and ginger. Put mixture A in a saucepan and bring it to a boil. Take the mixture off the fire and combine with flour mixture to form a paste. Combine roast pork and B together, mix well. Combine A and B. Divide the dough and filling into equal portions and wrap filling in dough. Line with bond paper. Steam over high heat for 15 minutes.

[Lisa Drapeau]

Here is the page you are looking for regarding making the buns right and with rice flour (use regular NOT GLUTINOUS)... It's Filipino and called Siopao (sound familiar to the Chinese Siu Bao?) Anyway here are pics of it (although this has chicken filling you can use a chinese pork bbq or any filling you want)... Do the rest of the recipe with the rising twice (although I do three risings... once before baking powder, once after baking powder kneaded in, and once after rolls made but before steaming) and do the vinegar in the water thing as well if you like, and put on wax paper circles to steam them so they don't stick.

http://www.pinoycook.net/index.php/recipes/recipe/142

the dough recipe is on page 2 of this blog and should work well for you... biggest mistake is that people want the rice flour but use glutinous by mistake. Hope this helps you understand this dish better. Use this dough recipe with the right method, and also look up "manapua" for hawaiian versions of the filling... a good one is here:

http://alohaworld.com/ono/viewrecipe.php?id=1091471138

[Michi]

I have discovered the buns in Singapore a couple of months ago. At the moment I'm feeding on them while back in S'pore. I've just bought a packet of Pau (as they call it here) Mix at the local supermarket. Looking for a recipe for the filling I stumbled accross this great site. Let me tell you what's in the mix:

wheat flour, dough improver, sugar, vegetabel fat, baking powder. Plus extra a packet of dried yeast (tells ya to use 5g per 500g of mix)

The directions tell you to let it rise twice. So it pretty much sums up what the people who posted their experience with the buns wrote here.

I have yet to go back to Europe and try the little bitches. I'll let you know how white they turned out to be. But first: if you cannot get the pork filling, should you just get ground pork or is there anything else I might want to use?

[Li]

hi clement,
if u want to achieve a fluffy textured bun, you have to start with a bleached flour (aka low gluten, hi-ratio, superfine flour, hong kong flour) which i think u should be able to find at an asian grocery. secondly, try and get your hands on some ammonium bicarbonate. this is the leavening agent used in the production of baos and it also keeps them from turning yellow/off-white. u can get this from a chemist/pharmacy/drugstore or a bakers' supplier. ammonium bicarbonate is very strong and you only need the tiniest bit of it (the finished product will smell like hair dye otherwise).

[Sebbie]

Hi, I think to get that real Hong Kong Style Buns (Bau) you need the superlite flour or aka Hong Kong Flour. See link for full recipe. Enjoy.

[Sebbie]

Here is my link as above (did not show out, you can click on my nick :-

http://www.prima.com.sg/primaflour/recipes/superliteflour.html#hkbao

It takes 4 days to make the perfect bau. Wow.

[Maureen]

WOW!! Thank you for thie forum! I have just come back from living in China for 6 months and greatly miss steamed buns. I haven't attempted to try making them yet, but I am anxious to get started.

Thank you to everyone for posting such great advice!

[Breidi Marquez]

Ya. I'm filipino, and I'm in high school. If you are too lazy or just fed up with trying to cook them, go to Vons and look in the frozen food section. They have something called Cha Siu Bao there, by Safeway Select. :) Glad to help...

[Never]

First of all it is a good page for Steamed Buns tips. I have made steamed buns many times but never turn up white and fluffy. I am interesting Pocahontas recipe with warm milk and heard about vinegar. I will try Pocahontas recipe with warm milk and put vinegar in boiling water for Morning tea @ work. Hope it will turn up good as i am trying to impress someone ............ hehehe. Will let you all know how is turn up. Ohhhhh you all are invited to morning tea on Wednesday too :P.

Never

[AT]

a friend of mine told me a great tip to make the buns white... when steaming them, add one or two teaspoons of vinegar in the steaming water - apparently the acetic acid in the steam makes them white... and it works.

[edulham]

Can someone please tell me how to make chinese sausage ( Lapcheong) I have tried looking for the recipe but can't find it anywhere.

Thanks Edu

[Max]

I make pork buns all the time. For a terrific time-saving tip, I use Bridgford Frozen Parkerhouse Style Rolls dough, or you could use the Bridgford Frozen White Bread Dough. These are so easy to use and fill, they steam up totally white, and bake even better. Follow package directions for thawing, roll, stuff, let rise, steam or bake, delish!

[Yasmin]

I just made pao yesterday. Previously i used bread flour like what everyone does but the pao is so hard esp. cooled down. Yesterday i used cake flour (less gluten) and it turned out very nice. I found this recipe from japanese website and it uses cake flour and milk. Nice...give it a try...hope this helps.

The ingredients:
1) low gluten flour (cake flour) 300g
2) Yeast 4g
3) baking powder 10g
4) fine sugar 40g
5) milk 40ml
6) water 100ml
7) lard (i substitute with butter or veg oil) 15g

just mix ingredients 1,2,3,4. Then add in milk and water and knead well. Knead in 7 and knead until smooth and elastic. Rest the dough for 30 mins then shape the dough into balls and then rest for another 15 mins and steam for 15 mins.

[Cecilia Morris]

I am a Singaporean chinese living in Australia and make alot of dough, baked or steamed. I am privileged to know friends who are chefs and these are the 2 common ones they gave me that I used, it works for me so hope it works for you too. A tip: hot water dough (made with hot water) turns out softer when steamed wherelse cold water dough becomes tough when cooled. Hot water dough is mainly used for making steam buns and cold water dough is for those that needs pan frying or baking. You can experiment with your normal dough recipe using hot water. I have a friend from China who used an overnight fermented dough starter.

First Recipe.
Starter Dough: 300grams medium gluten flour, 1 teaspoon instant yeast, quarter cup warm water and half cup cold water.
Pour warm water into bowl, add instant yeast and mix well. Sift medium gluten flour, add to instant yeast mixture. Add cold water a little at a time, mix well and knead to form dough. Coat inside of plastic bag thinly with cooking oil, put dough into plastic bag and tip up, leaving enough room for dough to rise. Leave dough to rise till soft, smooth and doubled in size.
Add to starter dough above after doubled, 1 cup low gluten flour, 1 tablespoons sugar, 3 tablespoons lard(we only use lard in making chinese buns), half teaspoon ammonium bicarbonate, 1 tablespoon baking powder and 1 tablespoon white vinegar. Knead well to form dough. Divide dough into 15 pieces, add 1 tablespoon of filling of your choice, score a cross on top of each bun. Place in bamboo basket lined with wet cloth. Bring steamer to boil and steam buns over high heat for 12 minutes, remove.

2nd Recipe.
6 and a half ounces low gluten (cake) flour, quarter pound water and 1 and a third ounce active dry yeast.
This is the dough starter, mix and knead till smooth and allow to rise for 3 hours. After this time, add:
6 and a half ounces cake flour, quater pound sugar, 1 egg, 1 tablespoons each cooking oil and rice vinegar, 1 teaspoon baking powder and half teaspoon ammonia bicarbonate.
Mix in and knead till smooth, divide into 40grams each and fill with filling of choice. Arrange and steam as above.

[erika]

if anyone gets to chicago & loves bao, make sure you stop in at
WOW BAO in water tower place. they are SOOOO incredibly good!
my first asian steamed bun & i am HOOKED!

[JARY]

HI IM LOOKIN FOR THE RECIPE OF THE PINEAPPLE BUNS (BOR LOR BAO) I FIND ONE BUT IT DIDNT TASTE THE SAME PLEASE I NEED HELP!!!